| sptsman |
| (member) |
| 10/17/17 06:49 PM |
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Gun Shipping
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I know this should go down in the gun section but I need some advice before December. I also know taking the advice given by you heathens is a risk. But...
I've never sold a gun. Still own every one I've ever acquired. But that is about to change. I am divesting myself of one shotgun and will list it on gunbroker.com and possibly a few others (certainly on our own Buy-Sell-Trade forum for all 6 people that look at it to see). My question is regarding the shipping. Can I ship it myself to a FFL for the buyer or do I have to take it to an FFL to ship it to another FFL? not sure how all this works...
All smart-arse comments will be appreciated (and expected), as long as someone can provide a real answer amongst the waggish comments...
Kurt?
dabs
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| 10/17/17 07:15 PM |
Re: Gun Shipping
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From the ATF website -
Transferring/Shipping/Possession of Firearms:
4. May I lawfully transfer a firearm to an individual who resides in a different State? What if the individual resides within the same State?
Under Federal law, an unlicensed individual is prohibited from transferring a firearm to an individual who does not reside in the State where the transferee resides. Generally, for a person to lawfully transfer a firearm to an unlicensed person who resides out of State, the firearm must be shipped to a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) within the recipient’s State of residence. He or she may then receive the firearm from the FFL upon completion of an ATF Form 4473 and a NICS background check. More information can be obtained on the ATF website at www.atf.gov and http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html. The GCA provides an exception from this prohibition for temporary loans or rentals of firearms for lawful sporting purposes. For example, a friend visiting you may borrow a firearm from you to go hunting. Another exception is provided for transfers of firearms to nonresidents to carry out a lawful bequest or acquisition by intestate succession. This exception would authorize the transfer of a firearm to a nonresident who inherits a firearm under a will or by State law upon death of the owner. See 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(5)(A).
In regard to transferring firearms between individuals residing in the same state, any person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of the State where he resides as long as he or she does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. Please note that there may be State and local laws that regulate firearm transactions. Any person considering acquiring or transferring a firearm should contact his or her State Attorney General’s Office to inquire about the laws and possible State or local firearms restrictions. A list of State Attorney General contact numbers may be found at http://www.naag.org/.
| sptsman |
| (member) |
| 10/17/17 08:09 PM |
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Re: Gun Shipping
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Quote:
dabs said:
From the ATF website -
The GCA provides an exception from this prohibition for temporary loans or rentals of firearms for lawful sporting purposes. For example, a friend visiting you may borrow a firearm from you to go hunting.
So I can skirt all of this if I don't sell it but just rent it for 100 years at the same price I would have sold it...
Thanks dabs. Looks like my part is easy. I just mail it to the FFL they provide.
Any of you hands to this much? What am I going to screw up?
| hucklburry |
| (member) |
| 10/17/17 11:48 PM |
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Re: Gun Shipping
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I've never had a problem selling a gun for the price I want, using forums like this or word of mouth, and armslist, all face to face sales. I wouldn't pay gunbroker, unless maybe the shotgun is really expensive and you want a larger bidding audience.
Excluding pistols, the US postal service will ship from you to someone directly in the same state, or to an FFL if crossing state lines.
If you wanted to ship a pistol, in state or out, I think you will end up shipping from an FFL to an FFL, as I don't think a carrier will take a pistol from a private person.
I could be wrong.
What ya selling?
| Linhardt |
| (member) |
| 10/18/17 10:58 AM |
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Re: Gun Shipping
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Here is my opinion, especially now days. Eventhough you can sell face to face for someone in the state, I am still afraid that without some sort of proper documentation such as ATF Form 4473 that if the person commits a crime and the gun is recovered but the suspect is not the gun serial number is still registered under your name per the ATF Form 4473. That is IF you acquired the gun originally through an FFL and not Face to Face before you sold it. Am I wrong on that opinion? Just have always been afraid if that happen they would trace the gun back to me and I would not have any proper paperwork to show I sold it. Then I would be caught up with all the legal crap to prove that I was not involved with the crime, especially if you do not remember the individuals name you sold it to years back or know their whereabouts. What are your all opinions on this type of situation?
| sptsman |
| (member) |
| 10/18/17 11:09 AM |
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Re: Gun Shipping
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Quote:
Linhardt said:
Here is my opinion, especially now days. Eventhough you can sell face to face for someone in the state, I am still afraid that without some sort of proper documentation such as ATF Form 4473 that if the person commits a crime and the gun is recovered but the suspect is not the gun serial number is still registered under your name per the ATF Form 4473. That is IF you acquired the gun originally through an FFL and not Face to Face before you sold it. Am I wrong on that opinion? Just have always been afraid if that happen they would trace the gun back to me and I would not have any proper paperwork to show I sold it. Then I would be caught up with all the legal crap to prove that I was not involved with the crime, especially if you do not remember the individuals name you sold it to years back or know their whereabouts. What are your all opinions on this type of situation?
I wondered that myself. A quick google search revealed a "Missouri Firearm/Gun Bill of Sale" form that can be downloaded and used. At least is gives some record that the gun changed ownership.
| sptsman |
| (member) |
| 10/18/17 11:20 AM |
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Re: Gun Shipping
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Quote:
hucklburry said:
What ya selling?
An O/U shotgun. American Arms (made by Franchi, imported by AA) Silver II Lite. It is a lightweight O/U shotgun that is chambered 3". It is in good condition and has decorative engravings. I'll post some photos later on the Buy, Sell, Trade forum.
I don't use it and don't have a gun case to "display" it and the safe is getting too full. I've had it 15+ years and used it less than a dozen times. I'd rather take the money I can get from it and put it towards upgrading my duck hunting gun. Going to ask $650 or $625 and let someone talk me down to $600 or possibly a little less. $600 is less than the dealers would ask but more than they would give me for it. We'll see...
| hucklburry |
| (member) |
| 10/18/17 12:49 PM |
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Re: Gun Shipping
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The law doesn't require any proof.
I figure I have either emails via armslist in my folders, cell phone calls, or private messages on a forum, so I have a trail via those devices that can be traced/tracked. Maybe I am wrong, but I am not doing anything illegal in selling a gun to someone that appears to be able to purchase one, so I am not going to sweat it. Conversely, I assume if I sent an email or a PM on purchasing a gun, there is an electronic trail of me purchasing one. I've had one person have me fill out that form, he never looked at my driver's license, I could have put anything down on that form and he wouldn't have known any different.
The only question I have is, do I need a tin foil hat for thinking there are all these electronic records, or do you need one for thinking you need the form?
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dabs
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| 10/18/17 12:51 PM |
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Re: Gun Shipping
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I will give you two cordless drills and a pair of Maui Jim sunglasses for it and pay for shipping - no bill of sale of course
| sptsman |
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| 10/18/17 01:43 PM |
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Re: Gun Shipping
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Quote:
dabs said:
I will give you two cordless drills and a pair of Maui Jim sunglasses for it and pay for shipping - no bill of sale of course
Throw in an oar and we might be talkin'...
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griffin
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| (administrator) |
| 10/18/17 02:49 PM |
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Re: Gun Shipping
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I've bought guns, sold guns, given guns away, been given guns......no paperwork for any of it.
The law doesn't require it so I don't worry about it.....nor do I give a rats arse what you do with it after I sold it to you.
That's your business.
griffin
| 67Firebird |
| (Former political advocate) |
| 10/18/17 03:09 PM |
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Re: Gun Shipping
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You can ship a long gun, through Fed-Ex or UPS, but you have to take the gun to one of their hubs. A UPS Store won't do it. You should check with the receiving FFL first though, because some of them won't accept anything from an individual. That's not in the law; it's their personal rule.
Only an FFL or their representative can ship any gun through the USPS. Some of their counter people don't know this, and get jumpy when you tell them it's a pistol you're shipping.
Handguns have to be shipped FFL to FFL.
For FTF sales, I do the same as what Scott said. No paperwork at all. I just make reasonably sure they're a Missouri resident and already own guns before selling to them.
Ammo is a bit more involved, because of paperwork and stickers (ORM-D I think), but firearms are easy.